Transcribed from an interview by Nicole Whitney
The following is an excerpt of the latest awareness-altering audio interview posted on News for the Soul (dot com) where this UK based author, speaker and journalist who is often billed as the most controversial speaker in the world challenges the very core of our collective beliefs about the world in which we live ~ and the limitless true potential lurking just beyond them, awaiting us all.
From a web of conspiracy and control reminiscent of the original Matrix movie plot to a Utopian dream beyond imagination, David Icke talks about how the game is played and how he says we can all win.
INTERVIEWER: NewsfortheSoul.com founder and host conscious journalist Nicole Whitney.
NW: So, the last time we talked you were diving into some intriguing explorations into the nature of reality. Where has that gone since we talked last, David?
Well over the last year to 18 months the way Ive been
working and the way that life has been pushing me has been
almost entirely into the realms of what is reality, how do
we create it and, most significantly, in relation to the research
into the conspiracies Ive been doing all these years
and how is our sense of reality manipulated to make us easy
I remember saying to my wife when I was coming to the end of the book before the last one Alice in Wonderland and the World Trade Center Disaster -- that if I was going to go to the next stage of understanding all this, I had to experience other realms. And not in some dream state in sleep like did I really experience that? but actually in solid awareness. And as coincidence would have it, I was invited, just after I finished that book, to go to the Amazon Rain Forest in January of 2003 and take something called Ayahuasca which is a plant a rain forest plant which they turn in to what they call a turn and Shaman in South America have been using it for centuries at least to take people into other realms of reality.
could have taken it (Ayahuasca) about four times but I took
it twice and it was an experience particularly on the
2nd night that completely transformed my view of life.
What it did was take my intellectual understanding o that
the world is an illusion into the realms of knowing its
an illusion and theres a difference between intellectually
understanding its an illusion and this level of knowing
it because youve experienced it.
First of all, I felt this enormous energy coming out of the heart chakra area, or into the heart chakra area and then out again in an arch to my head and it was so clear feeling that arch of energy from my heart chakra to my head and other energy coming into the heart chakra. I was in this dark room just me and a guy who was observing me and who is an expert in this whole Ayahuasca stuff --- and suddenly out of no where, this strip light came on, and then a 2nd one and then a 3rd one. The energy in the room was extraordinary!
remember laying there. What happens when you take Ayahuasca
is when you close your eyes, youre in another realm
and when you open them , you are back in five sense reality
and its very very interesting to observe the two. .
What happens, however, is your eyes dont want to stay
open that long. They want to close, so you go back to where
Over that night and particularly on the 2nd night, where I went into this other state of awareness for like five hours, a voice spoke to me. It was a very clear female voice or a female form is what it took as clear as mine is now in which it talked to me for all these hours about the nature of reality and how we create it. It was pointing out that this world we think is real is actually an illusion generated by our minds and, not least, generated by our belief in what is real.
Basically, what we believe to be real is what we experience as real.
But its just a figment of our imagination.
And the Matrix as I refer to it (and the voice referred to it as the Matrix as well) is actually a gigantic thought form which we got caught in and whats catching us in the web, if you like, is that we think what were experiencing here what were seeing - is real.
And, as it was pointing out, the only difference between the dreams we have in sleep and the dream were having now is we take this dream to be real. And illusions can only control us when we think they are real. When we know theyre illusions , they lose their control over us. And so were living in a world that is so similar to the world portrayed in the first matrix movie - a world in which were in a dream world that we think is real.
was hours and hours of this stuff which I detail in Time Loop
(my new book Tales of the Time Loop) but when I came back
to England, I started looking into Quantum Physics and psychological
research in the mainstream of science, if you like, to see
if there was a correlation between what this voice told me
in this other state of awareness and we call mainstream science
, and I found the two correlated incredibly. The thing about
science is that people dont talk to each other, so this
area of research establishes this information and over here,
somewhere else in another discipline or another place, this
area of research comes to this conclusion and decide this
information is true. But they dont talk to each other.
And so this idea that this world is solid , is real and is
the only world that exists is still the prevailing idea that
comes out of science, as a whole.
Therefore, how can something that is almost entirely not solid, make up this solid wall thats in front of me now? It cant. Our minds do it.
real point where big pennies started to drop for me was when
I read of the research that shows that the only place that
this world the room that Im in now, the room
that youre in now, and the room the listeners (readers)
are in the only place that exists is actually in the
brain. It doesnt exist outside of us it exists
inside of us because when information enters the eyes, its
in nothing like the form that we think were looking
at.. First of all, its upside down.
Once you start to realize that we are what we believe and we experience what we believe, a very simple equation follows: He who controls the belief, controls the experience.
we have done as the human race is we have conceded our right
to create OUR reality and instead we are creating an externally
implanted sense of reality. One of the things I did in researching
Time Loop was to go and see a stage hypnotist at work and
that is precisely the situation that we face. This conspiracy
Ive been talking about all these years -- at its foundation
and without which it couldnt prosper, is the manipulation
of our sense of reality, And they do it in precisely the same
way that a stage hypnotist does it. The hypnotist gets the
subjects on the stage and he implants into their subconscious
a belief in what is reall, for example.
when you think about it, we have a stage hypnotist in the
corner of every room called the television. We have stage
hypnotists giving our children and young people a version
of reality a belief in what is real in what we laughingly
call the education system. Once people, as a whole, take on
this implanted belief in what is real, they then confirm to
people around them that what they are looking at is actually
true. It is real because I can see it too.
And you see this editing of reality all the time. . So this whole process of how we create reality is at the very forefront, Nicole, of what Im doing now because it is the bottom line of how were controlled and it is the frontline of how we take our power back and literally think this control and conspiracy and prison out of existence and think and believe, if you like, another existence into reality.
NW: So how exactly can we think away something that seems so solid?
DI: Well you dont have to just think it away you can experience it while being aware of what it is . In other words, you can use the illusion to your benefit instead of letting the illusion use you . Life Ive said in my books, we need to live life and not let life live us. What happens for most people is life lives them and theyre just basically sheep in a pen or sheep following someone in front instead of them dictating their own reality and their own experience and we dont do it, overwhelmingly, because we believe because of the information we get from cradle to grave that we have the power to do it. Therefore, we dont do it.
is why we are bombarded constantly throughout our experience
our lives here with negative things about ourselves;
about were ordinary men and women in the street;
we have no power; we cant do this; we cant do
We live in an I cant society.
It may masquerade as an I can society but the
you can bit is as long as you operate within the
parameters of the Matrix of the illusion which,
as you start challenging the illusion, you suddenly realize
its an I cant society.
This is the real information. And of course the illuminati dont want us to know about their secret societies networks. They dont want us to know about the agenda for the global fascist state the big brother society .
Of course they dont want us to know that, but the biggest, biggest BIGGEST thing they dont want us to know is that we are creating our own reality and that we have the power to create a reality thats a paradise or a reality thats a prison or somewhere in between. We are the ones with the power because we are generating the experience and the world we think is around us when its really within us.
Thats the power that will set us free. This is why they have worked so hard to suppress it. They want us to believe that we are ordinary and powerless. They want us to believe that this world is solid and the only world that there is or that there is some god sitting in paradise and only if you do as youre told according to the rules and regulations in this solid world do you get into paradise afterwards. All these things are used to disconnect us from the fact that we are generating our own reality and its an illusion . Its a dream world.
Now, we can generate a nice dream in which we have power over our own destiny and we live in a paradise or we can generate a nightmare in which we are ordinary, powerless and are controlled by the few to a very, very dark agenda which is one we are currently, on the whole, choosing to create. But we dont have to. We can change it any time we want.
One thing this voice in brazil said to me is theres really only one thing you really need to know .. Infinite love is the only truth and everything else is illusion.
It was saying that understanding that we are all one consciousness is something that we are seeking to return to and it is the thing over everything else that the manipulators are seeking to deny us the understanding of. They want us to believe in duality. They want us to believe we are all divided that were all single entities, if you like. That is a recipe for limitless conflict and limitless divide-and-rule because the fault lines that divide us all are infinite when you believe in that sense of reality.
NW: So what about the perceived illusion of time?
What the voice in Brazil said to me was that this five
sense level of the Matrix it referred to it as the
time loop because it said this realm of manufactured
time was the most dense level of the Matrix and was therefore
the most important to it because of the negative energy that
it generated to fuel the whole Matrix which is based on overwhelmingly
negative energy and our belief in time is fundamental to our
disconnection from oneness because oneness is no time. Oneness
is just NOW. There is no past.
NW: So timeless, non-vibrational existence is here and weve just forgotten, as opposed to it being somewhere else?
DI: As this voice in Brazil was emphasizing, its not that this realm is not part of oneness or that oneness is, as you put it, somewhere else. The difference is oneness in awareness of itself and oneness not in awareness of itself and we are in that realm of non-awareness.
NW: So how we use this information to start transforming your own world now?
its a challenge and I m not sitting here saying
its easy because there are different levels of this
and I can go into states of being, especially on stage where
I go into a completely different state of being, where all
these things are self evident. But there are other times where
you get pulled in to the illusion and you start reacting to
the illusion instead of holding that understanding that thats
what it is an illusion.
NW: So where do we go from here?
DI: You know Ive written goodness knows how many books now over the last decade and more about the conspiracy and there comes a point where we need to say hold on how do we change it? Okay, we see the problem. Now, where do we go with this. Understanding the problem is just a mind generated illusion and therefore so can the way out of here be, is the way that we need to go. We need to focus on knowing this world you think is around you it is inside you and youre creating it on what you accept to be real.