Daring Discussions
David Icke

Transcribed from an interview by Nicole Whitney

The following is an excerpt of the latest awareness-altering audio interview posted on News for the Soul (dot com) where this UK based author, speaker and journalist who is often billed as “the most controversial speaker in the world” challenges the very core of our collective beliefs about the world in which we live ~ and the limitless true potential lurking just beyond them, awaiting us all.

From a web of conspiracy and control reminiscent of the original Matrix movie plot to a Utopian dream beyond imagination, David Icke talks about how the game is played and how he says we can all win.

INTERVIEWER: NewsfortheSoul.com founder and host – conscious journalist Nicole Whitney.

This is a partial transcript representing approx. 20 minutes out of a 2 hour interivew. You can listen to the full 2 hour interview online at no charge by visiting http://www.newsforthesoul.com/icke.htm. Some minor editing has been done for effective translation between audio and printed format.

NW: So, the last time we talked you were diving into some intriguing explorations into the nature of reality. Where has that gone since we talked last, David?

DI: Well over the last year to 18 months the way I’ve been working and the way that life has been pushing me has been almost entirely into the realms of what is reality, how do we create it and, most significantly, in relation to the research into the conspiracies I’ve been doing all these years and how is our sense of reality manipulated to make us easy to control.

In January of last year I reached a point where I decided I was going to see if I could experience other realms of existence – other realms of reality – and observe this one from that point of observation because as the years have unfolded and I’ve been doing more and more of this, if you like, five sense research – names, dates, places & connections – into the global agenda for this centralized world fascist state, that I’ve been talking about all these years which is now unfolding, of course, right in front of our eyes… I started to realize I could only go so far with that. Because there were other levels to this and certainly those other levels contain the solutions to all these five sense manipulations that I was coming across.

I remember saying to my wife when I was coming to the end of the book before the last one – Alice in Wonderland and the World Trade Center Disaster -- that if I was going to go to the next stage of understanding all this, I had to experience other realms. And not in some dream state in sleep like ‘did I really experience that?’ but actually in solid awareness. And as coincidence would have it, I was invited, just after I finished that book, to go to the Amazon Rain Forest in January of 2003 and take something called Ayahuasca which is a plant – a rain forest plant – which they turn in to what they call a turn and Shaman in South America have been using it for centuries at least to take people into other realms of reality.

I could have taken it (Ayahuasca) about four times but I took it twice and it was an experience – particularly on the 2nd night – that completely transformed my view of life. What it did was take my intellectual understanding o that the world is an illusion into the realms of knowing it’s an illusion and there’s a difference between intellectually understanding it’s an illusion and this level of knowing it because you’ve experienced it.

I got to the age of 50 without taking a single magic mushroom and I never even had one smoke of pot or anything. I’ve never taken any of this stuff but I just felt that the synchronicity of this whole situation - I was going to go with it. So I took it and on the first night I took this tea that tasted a bit like licorice and for about 2 hours or so, I went into other realms and some amazing things happened.

First of all, I felt this enormous energy coming out of the heart chakra area, or into the heart chakra area and then out again in an arch to my head and it was so clear feeling that arch of energy from my heart chakra to my head and other energy coming into the heart chakra. I was in this dark room – just me and a guy who was observing me and who is an expert in this whole Ayahuasca stuff --- and suddenly out of no where, this strip light came on, and then a 2nd one and then a 3rd one. The energy in the room was extraordinary!

I remember laying there. What happens when you take Ayahuasca is when you close your eyes, you’re in another realm and when you open them , you are back in five sense reality and it’s very very interesting to observe the two. . What happens, however, is your eyes don’t want to stay open that long. They want to close, so you go back to where you were.

But I remember opening my eyes and seeing these strip lights coming on and thinking what the heck is the guy turning the lights on for? It turns out he hadn’t. He hadn’t touched the strip lights at all. They’d come on all on their own. And the music he was playing – that kept stopping and starting without him doing anything to it., so the re was a tremendous energy in the room.

Over that night and particularly on the 2nd night, where I went into this other state of awareness for like five hours, a voice spoke to me. It was a very clear female voice or a female form is what it took as clear as mine is now in which it talked to me for all these hours about the nature of reality and how we create it. It was pointing out that this world we think is real is actually an illusion generated by our minds and, not least, generated by our belief in what is real.

Basically, what we believe to be real is what we experience as real.

But it’s just a figment of our imagination.

And the “Matrix” as I refer to it (and the voice referred to it as the Matrix as well) is actually a gigantic thought form which we got caught in and what’s catching us in the web, if you like, is that we think what we’re experiencing here – what we’re seeing - is real.

And, as it was pointing out, the only difference between the dreams we have in sleep and the dream we’re having now is we take this dream to be real. And illusions can only control us when we think they are real. When we know they’re illusions , they lose their control over us. And so we’re living in a world that is so similar to the world portrayed in the first matrix movie - a world in which we’re in a dream world that we think is real.

There was hours and hours of this stuff which I detail in Time Loop (my new book Tales of the Time Loop) but when I came back to England, I started looking into Quantum Physics and psychological research in the mainstream of science, if you like, to see if there was a correlation between what this voice told me in this other state of awareness and we call mainstream science , and I found the two correlated incredibly. The thing about science is that people don’t talk to each other, so this area of research establishes this information and over here, somewhere else in another discipline or another place, this area of research comes to this conclusion and decide this information is true. But they don’t talk to each other. And so this idea that this world is solid , is real and is the only world that exists is still the prevailing idea that comes out of science, as a whole.

Where when you look at the individual areas of research within it, the fact that this world is an illusion is already a provable fact. For instance, the room that is around me now is made up of atoms – this so = called solid wall. Well, when you look at the inside of an atom, it’s about as empty as anything you can get. One physicist was pointing out that if you take an atom to be the size of a cathedral , then the particles within it are about the size of a 10 cent piece. The rest is – in this reality – empty space.

Therefore, how can something that is almost entirely not solid, make up this solid wall that’s in front of me now? It can’t. Our minds do it.

The real point where big pennies started to drop for me was when I read of the research that shows that the only place that this world – the room that I’m in now, the room that you’re in now, and the room the listeners (readers) are in – the only place that exists is actually in the brain. It doesn’t exist outside of us – it exists inside of us because when information enters the eyes, it’s in nothing like the form that we think we’re looking at.. First of all, it’s upside down.

It’s two dimensional and it’s in a very different form to the world we think we’re looking at. What then happens is this information travels through the brain to the visual cortex at the back, The visual cortex is actually where this world actually exists in movie form, if you like. We create it.. And as the information passes through different levels of the brain, from the eyes to the visual cortex, a massive editing process takes place in which, according to at least some research, up to and sometimes more than 50 per cent of the information that enters the eyes is changed. Detail is taken out that is there and detail is put in that isn’t there.

And what they’ve found is that this editing process is done on the basis of that person’s belief in what is real. So information enters the eye, it goes through the editing caused by the belief, and, by the time it hits the visual cortex in the brain and registers as this world we think is around us, it is a world based on our belief in what is real.

“Once you start to realize that we are what we believe and we experience what we believe, a very simple equation follows: He who controls the belief, controls the experience.”

What we have done as the human race is we have conceded our right to create OUR reality and instead we are creating an externally implanted sense of reality. One of the things I did in researching Time Loop was to go and see a stage hypnotist at work and that is precisely the situation that we face. This conspiracy I’ve been talking about all these years -- at its foundation and without which it couldn’t prosper, is the manipulation of our sense of reality, And they do it in precisely the same way that a stage hypnotist does it. The hypnotist gets the subjects on the stage and he implants into their subconscious a belief in what is reall, for example.

There’s a giraffe in the audience or the woman next to them is naked. That belief then dictates the subjects sense of reality so what happens is that the information enters the eyes of the subject – of course without a giraffe in the audience and with the woman next to them fully clothed. But then it goes through the editing process of the implanted belief by the hypnotist and it then re-arranges reality on the basis of that belief and it puts the giraffe in the room and it takes the clothes off the lady next to them so by the time the information hits the visual cortex and becomes what we think we’re looking at, that reality is re-arranged.

And when you think about it, we have a stage hypnotist in the corner of every room called the television. We have stage hypnotists giving our children and young people a version of reality – a belief in what is real in what we laughingly call the education system. Once people, as a whole, take on this implanted belief in what is real, they then confirm to people around them that what they are looking at is actually true. It is real because I can see it too.

And then along comes a few people who have gone beyond that and have realized that it’s an illusion and they’re basically saying to them “hey – there’s no giraffe in the room! Honest – there’s not!” And they look at such people and they go “you’re mad! What do you mean there’s no giraffe in the room ? I can see it, mate. Don’t be silly!””

And you see this editing of reality all the time. ………. So this whole process of how we create reality is at the very forefront, Nicole, of what I’m doing now because it is the bottom line of how we’re controlled and it is the frontline of how we take our power back and literally think this control and conspiracy and prison out of existence and think and believe, if you like, another existence into reality.

NW: So how exactly can we think away something that seems so solid?

DI: Well you don’t have to just think it away – you can experience it while being aware of what it is . In other words, you can use the illusion to your benefit instead of letting the illusion use you . Life I’ve said in my books, we need to live life and not let life live us. What happens for most people is life lives them and they’re just basically sheep in a pen or sheep following someone in front instead of them dictating their own reality and their own experience and we don’t do it, overwhelmingly, because we believe – because of the information we get from cradle to grave – that we have the power to do it. Therefore, we don’t do it.

This is why we are bombarded constantly throughout our experience – our lives here – with negative things about ourselves; about “we’re ordinary men and women in the street; we have no power; we can’t do this; we can’t do that’ … We live in an “I can’t” society. It may masquerade as an “I can” society but the “you can” bit is as long as you operate within the parameters of the Matrix – of the illusion – which, as you start challenging the illusion, you suddenly realize it’s an “I can’t “ society.

So if you take on the belief, for instance, that you are ordinary and powerless, then you are going to experience ordinary and powerless lives because that’s what you’re going to create. That’s what you are going to experience. What eve the information coming in through the eyes, you are going to edit that to support the belief that you are ordinary and powerless.

This is the real information. And of course the illuminati don’t want us to know about their secret societies networks. They don’t want us to know about the agenda for the global fascist state – the big brother society .

”Of course they don’t want us to know that, but the biggest, biggest BIGGEST thing they don’t want us to know is that we are creating our own reality and that we have the power to create a reality that’s a paradise or a reality that’s a prison or somewhere in between. We are the ones with the power because we are generating the experience and the world we think is around us when it’s really within us.”

That’s the power that will set us free. This is why they have worked so hard to suppress it. They want us to believe that we are ordinary and powerless. They want us to believe that this world is solid and the only world that there is or that there is some god sitting in paradise and – only if you do as you’re told according to the rules and regulations in this solid world – do you get into paradise afterwards. All these things are used to disconnect us from the fact that we are generating our own reality and it’s an illusion . It’s a dream world.

Now, we can generate a nice dream in which we have power over our own destiny and we live in a paradise or we can generate a nightmare in which we are ordinary, powerless and are controlled by the few to a very, very dark agenda which is one we are currently, on the whole, choosing to create. But we don’t have to. We can change it any time we want.

One thing this voice in brazil said to me is “there’s really only one thing you really need to know….. Infinite love is the only truth and everything else is illusion.”

It was saying that understanding that we are all one consciousness is something that we are seeking to return to and it is the thing over everything else that the manipulators are seeking to deny us the understanding of. They want us to believe in duality. They want us to believe we are all divided – that we’re all single entities, if you like. That is a recipe for limitless conflict and limitless divide-and-rule because the fault lines that divide us all are infinite when you believe in that sense of reality.

NW: So what about the perceived illusion of time?

DI: What the voice in Brazil said to me was that this five sense level of the Matrix – it referred to it as “the time loop” because it said this realm of manufactured time was the most dense level of the Matrix and was therefore the most important to it because of the negative energy that it generated to fuel the whole Matrix which is based on overwhelmingly negative energy and our belief in time is fundamental to our disconnection from oneness because oneness is no time. Oneness is just NOW. There is no past.

There is no future. There’s just now. And so if oneness is no time , if you believe in the passage of time and you connect to the passage of time, and you flow with a belief in this manufactured belief in the passage of time, by the very nature, time will disconnect you from no time. Time is a real real big disconnecter and when you look at the history of how the present version of time was created, the very same secret societies that have been involved in the banking system and manipulation of politics and all that over the centuries , they were involved in the creation of time as we experience it.

NW: So timeless, non-vibrational existence is here and we’ve just forgotten, as opposed to it being somewhere else?

DI: As this voice in Brazil was emphasizing, it’s not that this realm is not part of oneness or that oneness is, as you put it, somewhere else. The difference is oneness in awareness of itself and oneness not in awareness of itself and we are in that realm of non-awareness.

NW: So how we use this information to start transforming your own world now?

DI: Well, it’s a challenge and I ‘m not sitting here saying it’s easy because there are different levels of this and I can go into states of being, especially on stage where I go into a completely different state of being, where all these things are self evident. But there are other times where you get pulled in to the illusion and you start reacting to the illusion instead of holding that understanding that that’s what it is – an illusion.

The division’s an illusion. What the person’s saying to you is an illusion and you’re interpreting what they’re saying in your own way based on your belief. What I’ve realized about my own life, and it’s made it a real challenge, is I’ve got one foot in this world and one foot in another world. One foot in this reality and one foot in the reality I experienced in Brazil. You know, there’s a lot of people who are spiritually aware, but they can’t connect with the next person to walk past this house because they’re somewhere else. There has to be a bridge between the world we’re experiencing that most people think is real and the oneness that we are. There has to be a bridge that people can walk across.

So I experience this world very much as a five sense person. I experience all of the emotions; I experience all of the frustrations; I experience all the things that everyone else is experiencing and I have done, of course, since I was born here. But there is another level of me that is increasingly aware that it is all an illusion. Where my life is taking me now is focusing more and more on this bridge so we can bring this awareness of oneness – the infinite one that we all are – that we are not droplets of water in an ocean, even, but that we are the ocean – bringing that into people’s daily experience where they are worrying about how to pay the mortgage, worrying about this, worrying about that, pressured to this , pressured to do that, I can’t talk about this ‘cause I have this to do because I have to survive…survive….survive….To infuse this energy into that realm of experience which is all about survival; that’s where my focus is taking me now.

NW: So where do we go from here?

DI: You know I’ve written goodness knows how many books now over the last decade and more about the conspiracy and there comes a point where we need to say “hold on – how do we change it?” Okay, we see the problem. Now, where do we go with this. Understanding the problem is just a mind generated illusion and therefore so can the way out of here be, is the way that we need to go. We need to focus on knowing this world you think is around you – it is inside you and you’re creating it on what you accept to be real.